Hi, it's me........ "nowIamone" in disguise, as Dave couldn't get me in to the forums under my real name and I am forced to come in under this alias. And yes, it is that cold today at my house.
Anyway, I have questions, and am in need of advice. But first what I haven't told you......... I shut down the restaurant months ago to take care of and spend time with my husband, who then passed away in March. I'm now starting to look around for something to do, and now need some input from all of you.
Also I should tell you that my old location is not an option, and in that venture I did steak and seafood. But, I have found a little place in town that has peaked my interest; it was operating as a coffee house/ sandwich shop. It was only open for a year, decor is nice, but not totally practical. They opened at 9:00am, our area bustles at 5:00 am, for seven months a year. The owners, with no food service experience, no hands on time; they have lost a ton of money and simply closed the doors. They are very hard to get info out of; I'm not sure if they don't want to face the facts themselves or are to embarrassed to admit what is going on. But to my benefit they still have a lease payment, so have some motivation to act, they have a note to pay but it is not secured by the restaurant assets (or so they tell me).
The kitchen/ service area build out is disastrous, and has to have some money spent there or I don't see it as productive or capable of any volume. They opened as a coffee lounge, but have placed the espresso machine on a back wall, 15 feet from the service counter, refrig for milk is on a far wall also. Consequently the finished product travels 15' to get to the customer; there is no display area for baked goods. They made sandwiches three small rooms away and across a hall from the main service area. Only served cold sandwiches and sysco soups. They were always slow and I can see why, the floor plan just doesn't work.
They showed revenues of 50/50 food and coffee. But I think it's a poor coffee location. I don't believe this coffee lounge/music thing in the evening will pay the bills. I think they have confused camping bodies sitting in the dining room with revenue.
It's this coffee that has me baffled. I've spent hours on it, ran numbers, read about it, etc. I just have trouble getting into a coffee snob mentality (wine, now that I can get into) I've spent two weeks cruising coffee forums, and they are purist, they have concerns regarding food hiding the smell of the coffee, etc. I think the coffee can be an asset, but don't see it as the key component in this instance.
I have a good following in my community, a re****tion for fresh, cooked on site food. I think there is a market for a fresher alternative for breakfast and lunch.
I can see adding panni sandwiches, some of my rustic Italian dishes (which have a following) fresh salads for lunch. Fresh waffles, quiche, breakfast sandwiches, at breakfast and be open at 5:00 am. for a lot of grab and go for our fishing tourists. Only McDonald's does this in our area.
Am I agonizing over this coffee thing to much? do I have to become a coffee-geek-snob to pull this off? Do any of you depend on coffee for a big portion of your revenue? 80,000. annual in revenue on coffee, in a poor location is nothing to ignore.
They have an asking number for this operation which is 1/3 more than I think the equipment and furnishings will liquidate for if they can take their time in selling the assets. But their lease payments are going on.
Okay, team, help me out with some of your candid, outspoken opinions.
Last edited: January 16, 2009 10:18 PM by 27belowzero
First, Iam, let me offer my condolences and sympathy.
I think, as you already believe, you're over reacting to the snob factor of the coffee. Those who want to sit and sip aren't likely to be your target market. Your market, as you've already mentioned, are those tourists gearing up for fishing, etc., and your built-in base of locals. I don't believe either would really care about the taste different between Kona AA, Jamaican Blue or Yemen coffees. That's not to say people don't appreciate good coffee, ask Keith (Kaffeenjunkie), but I don't see your market being to concerned.
As for your kitchen, quite possibly substantial time and effort may be required to "tweak and tune" to get it in order. However, it may not be that bad either, depending on where your electricity and/or water availability ports are located.
(Damn, I wish I could see your original post while I complete this -- I'll have to mention this deficiency to AdminDave.)
I think your potential breakfast/brunch/lunch offerings would be sufficient without really breaking a sweat. I don't know if you've ever been south of the Mason-Dixon line, but a couple diner-type chains here do breakfast 24-7 with "hints of real food" (my emphasis). Their entire kitchen is nothing more fry, griddle, sauté, waffle makers and a small char-broil... but man do they crank 'em out!
If you have any other questions, feel free to email me at
. Hell, I'm unemployed. Need help?
Ciao,
Give 'em what they want. Just make it better than they expected. Operation: Flavor
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I am sorry about your loss - and Steve you are right about not seeing the posts. And, I hope that you are employed soon.....
A thought on coffee places - ala Starbucks and the like. I think that coffee is part, but not all of the attraction of those places. I think they worked because they were a "third space" - a place other than home and work where you could meet up with people without spending a ton of money. And, they are a good place to work, when you are on the road or want out of the house.
If you want people who want to sit for hours, then yes, a stong coffee program is needed. But, if you are serving people like a regular restaurant, then all you need is a decent cup of joe.
Make sense?
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I just wanted to say how sorry I am for your loss. I know how hard losing a loved one can be and I am glad to see you are ready to jump back in the frying pan. Best of luck to you and my humble thoughts..........screw the coffee. make it good, make it hot and they will come for your food.
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I exrtend sympathies as well.
Welcome back to the fold and I hope Dave figures out your Ident.
The coffee thing can be three things-
One is the snobishness that isn't too far removed from wine. Coffee is a crop and like wine the flavor, body, acidity and aroma can vary from year to year and even estate to estate, Many of the terms used to decribe the flavor profile come from wine terms.
The second thing is whole bohemian hold over from the sixties coffee shops that many of the kids today embrace without understanding why. Not a scene I like as it usually involves people who buy a small coffee sitting for hours, lots of smoke, them damn clove cigs, reading of usually poor poetry and music I must be too old to understand.
The last thing is the Starbucks model of great brewed coffee but more importantly selling lattes and allowing the customer to customize their drinks so you can charge more for. A bit of snobbery but really giving people a third place to meet and socialize.
We embraced the last one and tossed in some really great food on top of it. You do have to be open early, Not many who can afford the daily habit drink cofee after 3pm.
Feel free to drop me a line or a PM
life is like plastic wrap
"The difference between excellence and mediocrity is a very small effort." Flatlander
It looks as if I'm back in the forums as my old self.
Steve, Beth and Terri; Thank you for your kind thoughts and caring expressions of sympathy.
Steve, I appreciate your offer to come help, but have you given any thought to enduring the 100 degree temperature plunge in less than 24 hours? That can be a problem with air travel, no time to acclimate. and I should warn you that it has gotten even colder in the last few hours. Seriously, thank you; but first we need to find me something to do before, we staff up. One thing at a time.
Beth, I do understand what you mean.
I was surprised to see that this place did as much revenue as claimed, not that it was a lot (still haven't seen any paperwork) and then it was more of a surprise to see the coffee revenue. I feel I have to give it a lot of consideration as a revenue generator. I've spent a lot of time wondering if I could learn enough about it to hold a standard of quality, and is that possible without becoming immersed in the whole coffee persona? (Kind of like ordering Black Angus Steaks, do I really have to know the pros and cons of which valley they grazed in?? Or can I order well, look at the steak, poke at it, and monitor the quality relatively well.) I think you guys have helped me sort out a practical coffee attitude. But, I think to have a good handle on it, I probably have to get on the plane and spend a day or two in Seattle taking a crash barista course, which is do able. Learn enough that I can train anybody, and not be dependant on the staff.
I did email these folks last night, explaining that I needed to spend a couple hours in the property, would like to see the lease, etc. I sure would like to get them to the table; otherwise they will sit there far to long, then will have to try and move the equipment, and some one will just come in and take the lease space. Which is not a bad alternative in this case. It's the lost time that will be a shame.
Good Morning, things are looking a little warmer here; temp is moving to -19 today. Spring is on the way.
I finally did receive some numbers from the seller late yesterday. I need to mull them over and go spend a couple of hours in the property, so I can evaluate the floor plan and equipment. It's the old story, I only have so much money after acquisition to deal with the kitchen, have to see what can I do to make it functional to achieve a revenue level that will work, or if I can.
It does make me nervous to have so much revenue dependant on a little 3.00 cup! I'll be back with questions.
